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This set of messages talks about "Human Imagery". This means that we In another set of messages we will be talking
about having been made Human Imagery Comments I have noted that the dialogue to-date has focused
on human imagery of God...God as he, Father, she, Mother....
Interesting..that kind of image has often resulted in right/wrong type
of arguments in discussions that I have witnessed or been an unhappy
participant in. I more often think of the image of God as nature, tree,
or God as energy force..God as fire, or wind...I don't know if God can
be looked at or, if God could be looked at, if God would always look the
same. I haven't been to VST or any other theology school. I am not of
the ministry, just a lay person of the United Church. I have trouble
labelling God, I guess because my understanding of the Bible as a whole
is not that of something to be taken literally, so, hence, I cannot take
the images of God literally. I also try to reflect on God, thinking of
other religions or cultures words or visions. I find by looking at what
is different, I tend to find what is important to me.... So, "God as
spirit, infinite, eternal", works for me...I will watch this dialogue
and Also, if anyone wishes to explain to me what "in the unity of the Godhead" means, I would welcome it. Finally, I have difficulty splitting the Holy Spirit and God...they have melded to become one in my faith...If anyone wishes to comment on that area, I would appreciate dialogue.
Comments Hello Jayne, Sorry if we are using human imagery too heavily, I assume that this is so because most significant relationships occur with other humans. In scripture God is also addressed as "Our Rock" an image which for me does provide insight into the permanence and ability to persevere which God possesses. I believe that the term 'Godhead' is meant to be a Trinitarian catch-all for all three persons of the Trinity. Since the name God is often used for the first person it was considered necessary to create a term to describe the Three at once. Separating God from the Holy Spirit is another
issue. One reformational formula that I have seen states that each
person of the Trinity is God but that the persons of the Trinity cannot
be confused for the others (i.e. The Holy Spirit is God but the Holy
Spirit is not Jesus). I don't see any need to make the separation that
you mentioned.
Comments Hello Jayne, 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: This is what the Bible has to say about the worship of anything other than the one true God. To me this is an indication of the wisdom of the Bible that even that long ago the Jews of the time already sensed that the worship of multiple Gods leads to idolatry. The obvious question (for me) is: Who or what is that One God, and how do I avoid falling in the idolatry trap? Speaking of imagery, what of God as nature, tree, fire or wind? The ancient religions did the same thing. What then is the difference between us Christians and the Hindoes? With regards to our Trinity and the "unity of the Godhead", how about: Fire = light, heat, energy! How about water? H2O = water, ice, steam/fog. We have never been trained to think in those terms, but if I think along those lines I know exactly what the function of each aspect is, while I don't try to seperate one from the other two. No further confusion. I am becoming more and more of a Unitarian/Spiritualist. Unitarian , because there is only one God. Spiritualist because a Spirit can take on any shape or form. Think about it. Shalom, Peter.
Comments Hi Peter.. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Okay, explain to me why it is okay to see God as "Father". When I referred to God as tree, wind, fire, etc...I wasn't clear...I see God as spirit and as spirit, is in all of those things...I can best explain it as the central energy that courses through all living things. Uniting us as one being with God, within God, the God within... >>>What then is the difference between us Christians and the Hindoes? I don't see a difference between our God and "their" God... To me, the difference is Christ... I also hesitate to make decisions on God based on what is the Bible...as I do not take the Bible literally, but I do consider it an important part of my faith.. I have been amazed at the similairity in concepts about God throughout the world's cultures. I wonder if that is where we should take the first Article...There is one God...celebrated by all...shared by all..God of Love and Light. Shalom, jayne
Comments Hello Jayne, > OK, explain to mew why it is okay to see God as "Father". For two good reasons (among many): a) Jesus addressed God as "Father". (if we can believe the authors of the Bible). b) The society of the time was Patriarchal. The male simply was the dominant figure in the thoughts of the common people. Per a & b) The habit of addressing God as "Father" was well established in those days among the Jews. So, in effect Jesus re-inforced the custom of the day. Jesus, as you are well aware, made a valiant effort to change certain habits. You might read in this regards Mat 5:22 and what follows. With regards to calling God the "Father", this was one habit he made no attempt to change. Having said that, I think it is fair to ask you what your problem is with calling God "Father"? In speaking about other religions, you say that you don't see a difference between their God, and our God. You then continue by stating that the difference for you is Christ. May I ask that you clarify that statement!? You see, *MY* problem is that I disagree with the use of the word Christ as we use it today. IMO we ought to do away with the *Title* Christ, and replace that with the word "annointed". Why? Because that is what the word Christ means. It was never meant to be a title. Many people were annointed of God, and they were supposed to do a certain job. With regards to your last comment, I agree that we ought to do a lot of research on this Art 1, as it goes to the heart of the satements of faith. btw, do you have any examples of the similarities of certain concepts among the cultures of the world? Why not present them to us for meditation? Thanks in advance. Shalom, Peter. Ps, Are there other names in the Bible for God? If
so, what are they and where can I find them?
Comments :For two good reasons (among many): a) Jesus addressed God as "Father". (if we can believe the authors of the Bible). b) The society of the time was Patriarchal. The male simply was the dominant figure in the thoughts of the common people. Per a & b) The habit of addressing God as "Father" was well established in those days among the Jews. So, in effect Jesus re-inforced the custom of the day. Jesus, as you are well aware, made a valiant effort to change certain habits. You might read in this regards Mat 5:22 and what follows. With regards to calling God the "Father", this was one habit he made no attempt to change. The Bible has references to many things which were due to the custom of the day...does that make them always acceptable to-day? My understanding is that we recognize the historical elements of the story, taking into consideration all aspects of society, then see how they correspond to our lives or society to-day. Would not the word "Father" be also evaluated based on the historical concept of the patriarchy versus to-day's society? >>Having said that, I think it is fair to ask you what your problem is with calling God "Father"? The difficulty I have with Father is that it feels limiting or restrictive to me. I don't mind it. Some people I think find it very comforting. I know other people use Mother, but I also find that limiting. To me, God is much more than a human image. The question I had was why was a human image, ie Father, Mother not idolatry? We now know so much more about the world and energy and life...why restrict the image of God we use to something that our ancestors so many years ago were told? >In speaking about other religions, you say that you don't see a difference between their God, and our God. You then continue by stating that the difference for you is Christ. I apologize for the use of Christ incorrectly. Would it be preferable for me to use the name Jesus Christ, or Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus...please let me know. >>With regards to your last comment, I agree that we ought to do a lot of research on this Art 1, as it goes to the heart of the satements of faith. btw, do you have any examples of the similarities of certain concepts among the cultures of the world? Why not present them to us for meditation? Thanks in advance. As soon as I get home I will look through my papers and books to give good references. I am currently away on business (taking a late night breather -- isn't the net wonderful) I know you have mentioned the Unitarian church...If you have a copy of the Unitarian hymn book, and have the time..take a look through it, I think that is where some of the similarity is. Now, for items in other cultures, not covered there, I will try to do some research & pop it to this thread. I welcome anyone else's participation lso! Regarding the different images of God in the Bible, I specifically remember a Whole People Of God poster, about two years ago (?) which showed different imagery for God (if I remember correctly). I will try to locate it when I get back to Cambridge and then see if I can find the references for you. BTW, does anyone mind if i don't capitalize the Bible. I find it difficult to type, but am afraid to offend by not typing cap's. Let me know if it is a concern. I recognize the convention on God, Jesus, etc...would like to know if people are equally concerned re bible/Bible Shalom, and thanks for the interesting dialogue.
Jayne
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